Announcement

[GrandMasterTrea]

Black as White, previously Godhand is my novel. I had hoped to create a game based on it, but that is currently on hold.

Fairly confident I can't Necropost my own post, but if so...slap the cuffs on me.

In any case...

I haven't necessarily dropped the project, I still have everything and still have ambition to do it, but as several people said, it is a better concept in novel form than game form. Speaking of the novel, it is almost finished! Kind of...

I've been doing alot to the story, and it is better for it. As it stands, I can't translate it into a game effectively but I have several ideas on how to. It probably won't be for awhile, since I want to have the novel "finished" by the end of summer, but hopefully Black as White will be a game at some point. When it does drop though, I hope to impress.

This post has been edited by GrandMasterTrea: Jun 7 2012, 10:09 PM

[GrandMasterTrea]

I've added the Demo everyone! It should take about 2 hours to complete, and once you get to Kazugo, you have a lot of freedom. I hope everyone gives my game a shot, and I hope for alot of feedback.!

[Gemini Drake]

The game won't play properly. Since there's no BGM folder, or whatever the reason, the game will keep closing itself out. Also, I don't think it would be wise to place save files in the demo. That's my two cents.

This post has been edited by Gemini Drake: Jun 22 2011, 11:12 AM

[GrandMasterTrea]

Interesting. My friend downloaded the demo and said it works fine. I'll check this.

EDIT: I uploaded the wrong file, sorry. I sent out the demo to my friends first to test it, only heard back from one of them, he said he worked but I guess he didn't actually play it. Sorry about that.

This post has been edited by GrandMasterTrea: Jun 22 2011, 04:27 PM

[Gemini Drake]

It's okay. Accidents happen. I'll be sure to give ya a review once I finish the demo.

EDIT: You might want to upload the "Riku" music in the BGM folder. Found another crash moment.

This post has been edited by Gemini Drake: Jun 23 2011, 01:01 AM

[GrandMasterTrea]

You'd think after 2 months of "finalizing" the demo, I wouldn't screw anything up.

[Seppie]

You'd think after 2 months of "finalizing" the demo, I wouldn't screw anything up.

Why do I not see the demo link? Or am I just missing it? Also, I'm currently downloading your BGM and damn. It's huge. Hopefully, after the conversion it should drop.

Anyway, /topic. I can't believe you've been working on this for 8 years. It sounds like an awesome story (haven't read it, I hate FaceBook).

[GrandMasterTrea]

Download link is back up, and should work perfectly.

This post has been edited by GrandMasterTrea: Jun 26 2011, 09:30 PM

[GrandMasterTrea]

Feedback anyone?

[GrandMasterTrea]

After not having the use of my computer for 3 days and finally fixing it, I was extremely disappointed that I still, after a week, no feedback.

[amerkevicius]

One thing I'd strongly suggest is to put the title page up before the intro, or to at least offer a way to skip the intro. Having to go through that each time just to get to the options for a New Game or to Continue is a bit of an annoyance.

[GrandMasterTrea]

I admittingly got annoyed myself with that small speech, since I was constantly play testing, but how often are you closing down the game? It shouldn't take that long to complete.

[GrandMasterTrea]

So, I made a support bar for Godhand, in an effort to gather some more support. It isn't much, but if you would like to add it to your sig to help support the game, PM me.

You can also find it here Thanks!

[GrandMasterTrea]

I will be adding additional information, character Bios, and Screenshots every few days to keep the thread fresh. Also to replace the few useless bumps I did.

This post will provide more information on Rayemond Skull and his non-biological sister's, Talila and Karina Valentein. These three are the first people Trey meets in Magix.

Rayemond Skull
Age: 19
Class: Chaosmancer
Weapon: Greatswords, Longswords, an of course, his Chaos Magic.

Background:
Raye is the son of the late Clyde and Casey Skull. Clyde was a great Hunter, and was the youngest Class SS Hunter in the world. Raye aims to beat his father's record. His parents guided his youth combat training, keeping him ahead of his peers. He became a Hunter at Age 13 and joined his father on many hunts. Raye discovered his magical powers at Age 11. For some reason, he was one of the few living Chaosmancers, masters of Space and Time, even though neither of his parents were. Raye found Trey lying on the ground in the Kazugo Forest and woke him. After they slew Raye's hunting target, Raye offered to let Trey stay at his parents Estate if he agreed to help win the Annual Evion Martial Arts tournament.

Personality:
Raye is a kind person, like his sisters. After his parents death, and Vince's disappearance, he had to care for his sisters. Even though this helped him grow up fast, he is still a giant pervert, which is why he and Trey get along so well. Unlike Trey though, he takes combat quite seriously and doesn't goof around.

Combat:
Raye is a Chaosmancer, but also a skilled Swordsman. He can be compared to a Red Mage, but Raye is 20x better. Raye normally uses Greatswords, however he will also use a Longsword on occasion. There are also times were he will Dual-Wield Longswords or even Greatswords, he can do so because of a combination of his great strength and his Chaos powers. Technically speaking, he has no weakness. His Chaos powers include controlling time, in short bursts, and tearing or manipulating Time-Space to harm his enemies.

Talila Valentein
Age: 16
Class: Ninja
Weapon: Knives, Daggers, Throwing weapons and pistols.

Background:
Talila is the daughter of Vince and Yuri Valentein. She decided to follow both her parents footsteps, becoming a Ninja like her mother, while practicing with guns like her Father. She moved away to the town of Kuja, center for Ninjas, Assassins and Martial Artists at Age 8 to train as a Ninja. She returned at Age 12 before her Parents died. She met her boyfriend William at Age 13, and they remained together until William disappeared 2 years later.

Personality:
Tallia's Ninja training has hardened her to be like Trey, able to toss away her conscience and emotions. Despite that, she is very upset by the loss of both her Lover and parents. Her life goal is to discover what became of her Father and her boyfriend, William.

Combat:Talila is a Gunslinging Ninja, what more do you need to know? She is fast, agile and lethal. Her weapons are mainly Piercing and Fast Slashing weapons, as well as her pistols. She knows how to cripple her enemies to make them easier to kill, or just kill them outright. She can throw shuriken, unleash Ninjitsu like Fireball Jutsu, or place some well aimed shots on the enemy.

Karina Valentein
Age: 16
Class: Martial Artist
Weapon: Whips, Fists, Claws, Nunchucks.

Background:
Sister of Talila and Raye. Karina decided to follow the path of Raye's Mother, Casey, and train as a Martial Artist. She moved away to Kuja at age eight alongside Talila, and stayed there for four years training. At age 12, she returned to Kazugo, and became a Treasure Hunter.

Personality:
She is the most laid back of the Kazugo teens. She only perused one combat profession, unlike her brother and sister. She is rather shy at times, but can be very open to the right people. The death of her Mother affected her, but not on the same scale as Talila. She also seems rather unconcerned about the disappearance of her Father. She has no real life goal, other tan to enjoy it.

Combat:
She is a Fighter, Monk, Martial Artist. She uses her fists for most occasions, but she is also rather skilled with whips and and Nunchucks. Her moves mainly consist of the over the top shit you see in Jet-Li films, liking snapping bones and necks.



This post has been edited by GrandMasterTrea: Jul 20 2011, 10:45 PM

[GrandMasterTrea]

[Cass]

Hm. I've noticed this project for a while,
but I haven't actually taken the time to look at it.

The fact that this project began with a short story is very interesting. Oh, how I used to enjoy a good short
story session! I could never get used to the 'short' part, though.

I tried to read the Story Synopsis, but you honestly have made it very difficult to. You're still in story mode,
and want to tell us all the plot details before we even get to play. Unless we are meant to know all of this from
the beginning, you've set yourself up for disaster.

Why not make it more simple, and instead introduce our characters and the world as well? Usually, a story synopsis details the main 'gist' of the novel/game/movie etc.

We want to experience your game through our own eyes and ears. We don't need you to explain every single itty bitty detail to us! xD

I'm a bit sceptical. I probably won't try the demo yet. Please, consider revising your topic page. C>

[Ronove]

I'm going to go with Cass here--you haven't given us a reason to play your demo/game. Your story "synopsis" is a bore to read. You give us a rundown of what's happening instead of a summary that would get us interested in your game. What is your game about in the long run? In addition, grammar and spell check your post--you have quite a few errors and that only leads me to believe your game will be full of these errors and that means I won't want to play.

In addition, you haven't enticed us to want to click the download button.

"unique and likeable characters" & "Original, and interesting story" -> I don't like being told they are unique or that they are likeable or that your story is "interesting". Why should this be in your features section? Unless your characters aren't unique nor likeable nor is your story "interesting" without you telling us so. You can't TELL us this stuff, you have to show us. If this is how you set up your topic, why should I believe your game will be any different?

It could have potential, but with a topic--you have to make people WANT to play--with a good presentation. Maybe fix that up and you'll have more people wanting to play.

[GrandMasterTrea]

Thank you for your criticism Ronove, and I apologize. However, I find it hard to fix problem with my presentation unless someone says something about. Which you are the first to do so. (I used a Spoiler because it is rather big)

Spoiler:

I also apologize that you found difficulty with the story synopsis. What you read was basically the setup to Twilight Kingdom. Its everything you will really need to know, or I want you to know, about this chapter. I will create another section, with something closer to what you would like. Honestly, there isn't a single person that has truly understood this. Even my teachers scratch their heads. I'll work on simplifying it for you.

Keep in mind, this game is the 2nd Chapter of the story, which is why I was in "Story Mode" Like I said, that is the essential info you need to know to not be completely lost. What I described is only the prologue of the game, and there is much more Story to be uncovered. Yes, you are suppose to know all that from the beginning. What you read is only a fraction of what occured in the first Chapter, so even knowing all that, the first chapter will still be interesting when you get around to it.

In accordance to my grammar and spelling, this has been something that has bothered me for ages with this forum. I first typed this up in OpenOffice, and removed any spelling errors it caught, then I ran it through Opera and did the same. I don't know what it everyone is finding I spelled wrong, it truly baffles me. I also have a habit of adding in ALOT of commons, just because it is kind of how I speak. I also hope you are not counting capitalized nouns as grammar mistakes. I've always had a habit of capitalizing certain nouns, and being currently enrolled in German, that doesn't help. I apologize about any mistakes you find. I'll touch them up when I fix the other problems.

I'm also sorry I didn't pull you in. I agree, the features section is clearly lacking, I just haven't been sure how to fix it. You two are the first to give me some real feedback I can work with. And in regards to that, I hope you don't find all this text too aggressive or something. I like criticism, and I like to be as through as possible.

In regards to the Demo itself, based on my own playtesting, which is all I have to work with, there are no spelling errors. I fixed most of them, and didn't see any others. My entire idea with the demo, is that IT is what impresses you and makes you come back here, because unlike the Summary, it actually begins the story of Twilight Kingdom, world ending and all that. It sets you up for the first Arc of Twilight Kingdom.

Regardless, I will go back and revise. Thanks again for the responses, as criticism and responses are my only motivator. If you have any other concerns, please let me know.

EDIT: I have just added the new, improved project summary. I hope you all like it.

Now, I want to explain a little bit more about the story, because alot of you want to know what the entire story is about, and the fact of the matter is this. I can't tell you.

Spoiler:

Allow me to explain. I began writing this story in fourth grade. Twilight Kingdom is the evolves story of what I started 6-7 years ago. It was meant to be a fun, action packed adventure. It is the most fleshed out part of the story, thus why I'm starting with it.

Chapters 1 and 3 are much more recent, in the last year or two. They are still evolving. Because of this, Chapters 1 and 3 have more in common with each other than Chapter 2. To be honest, Twilight Kingdom is basically a step back from the main plot, and rather explores the 12 other characters, instead of Trey. Chapter 2 ties in, but you won't learn anything big about the overall plot, rather you will learn about the world of Magix, and a story all its own.

Now, I know how the story ends (give or take a few variables). The thing is, is that the major reveal that makes you go either "Oh Shit!" or "I expected so or at least something similar" doesn't come until the second part of Chapter 3. That's when the main story kicks into full gear. Everything else is build up, other stories, and yada yada. You may think that sounds stupid, but once you know what happens, it isn't nearly as stupid as it sounds. Hope this helped you understand a little bit more guys.

This post has been edited by GrandMasterTrea: Jul 19 2011, 04:22 AM

[Ronove]

You're a novel guy, so lemme try to appeal to that part of you. You say: "[Chapter 3 is] when the main story kicks into full gear." -- That's not good--for a game or a novel. That's not a way to get people into your story. Backstory may be important as is build up, but you gotta reel in the players/readers and if it's all backstory, it'll be a bit of a bore. Granted, if the "backstory" is very interesting and that reels people in, then it's okay. But the way you explain it, it doesn't sound like that. Rather, start with something that instantly pulls people in--remember players, especially RM people, don't want to waste time and in this generation, you gotta get a player's undivided attention quick or they'll get bored and move on to something else.

"Twilight Kingdom is basically a step back from the main plot" -- that's not a good thing. We aren't even in the plot yet, so why should we care about this game? (not trying to be mean, but that's something you should ALWAYS ask yourself--why should I care about game A when game A isn't even the main plot? etc. If you can't answer why we should care, it's time to reorganize your ideas). If players don't care, they won't click the topic and won't download the demo to give you feedback.

As for the feature section lacking, just take it out. Unless you have a feature that NO ONE has seen in RM, you don't need it--especially not for telling players (instead of showing them) that characters and plot are interesting or likeable.

And to further help you, I'll see if I can play the demo today and give you more thoughts on how that is set up too. Just keep going forward and don't get too discouraged when people don't reply. It means they aren't interested, so what you have to do is give them a reason to be interested.

Also, I'm not happy that your BGM folder will take me over 10 minutes to download. That could also be deterring people. Is there a way you can make it not so large?

Demo impressions in spoiler.

Spoiler:

Don't use Suteki Da Ne in the "prologue" (what was that, really? Served NO purpose and bored me a lot). When you use well-known music from well-known series, you run the risk of people thinking of the original game and not your game. Hearing that made me want to close your game and play FFX instead.

Why was Trey (or Trea?? you changed the spelling?) the only with a portrait picture in the beginning? Either take it out, or give everyone a portrait similar. Also, that portrait clashed with his faceset.

Opening is very boring--why should I care about these random words and random names and random portraits of people? It doesn't make anyone want to play it and rather it makes me want to close the game and go play something else. In addition, I should be able to skip it if I so choose.

The numbers in battle are VERY hard to read and thus they get lost and I'm really at a loss when my HP is down. You should change the color and make it more noticeable because that's ALL that matters in the battle system--if you can't see your HP and MP, it just doesn't make sense.

I also do not like the battle system--it moves WAY too slow. And I'm not a fan of random encounters--not even random encounters and visible encounters. Pick one or the other, not both. I suggest visible encounters.

Why does money always have to be in the lower right corner? It serves no purpose there and I can't even buy anything. In addition, why do hornets and "snakes" (those weren't snakes) carry dollars around? Bugs and reptiles wouldn't do that. You should make them drop no money.

Narration bores me and breaks the flow of the game. It's also a HUGE example of TELLING instead of SHOWING, and as a guy who writes novels, you should know that TELLING is the worst thing a writer can do when they can SHOW. Learn the difference.

When you find the rifle, one of the kids *glares at Devon* -- are you kidding me? Games don't do that--if you have trouble figuring out how to make the kid glare at Devon, get rid of it or show through his speech that he's mad at Devon. You're a writer, aren't you?

Also, at first I thought no one could equip the gun, but as I leave the menu, the gun gets added to my inventory. You shouldn't have opened the menu until after you gave the players the gun. Really. It also doesn't change anyone's attack and if you don't equip it, you never learn things are weak against it. Give players an incentive to equip it.

Maps are hard to see in. While your maps are what I expect from RM games, it's hard to tell where the exits are, which is a big no-no because then people get lost.

If God Hand is two handed, and presumably he's gonna be using it the entire game, why is he allowed to equip two-weapons? Which negates giving him more defense, unless it changes later?

So... goblins are monsters, but huge hornets and "snakes" aren't monsters? Ok.

AND where I shut off the demo: when little teenagers get an M6--two M6s in fact! Wow! I can't suspense my belief enough to have that believable. I'm not going to play anymore because there was absolutely NOTHING that piqued my interest. Actual video games know they have to grab their audience fast or risk losing that audience to another game. You haven't grabbed me at all and there are a ton of other games I can play and be grabbed and not have to get annoyed at little teenagers having 3 guns.

I would suggest to take a step back from your novel. Novels do not make good games. Good games do not make good novels. They are two separate mediums. In this, we can see you want to tell us a story, however that narration gets in the way so much. Instead of immersing us in the world, you are telling us how it is which is very bad narration--in novels and in video games. Yeah, sure, some telling in video games is okay because you need to know stuff, but when instead of showing us Trey (or Trea) falling in love with Claire, you spell it out--oh, she melted his frozen heart and flooded the world. Real cliche man. Instead, you could have SHOWN us this and had us squeeing over their love, but instead, you ruined that and didn't show us how it progressed before telling us that's what's going to happen.

I don't know what else to say but just take a step back and figure it out again.

This post has been edited by Ronove: Jul 19 2011, 04:14 PM

[GrandMasterTrea]

You're a novel guy, so lemme try to appeal to that part of you. You say: "[Chapter 3 is] when the main story kicks into full gear." -- That's not good--for a game or a novel. That's not a way to get people into your story. Backstory may be important as is build up, but you gotta reel in the players/readers and if it's all backstory, it'll be a bit of a bore. Granted, if the "backstory" is very interesting and that reels people in, then it's okay. But the way you explain it, it doesn't sound like that. Rather, start with something that instantly pulls people in--remember players, especially RM people, don't want to waste time and in this generation, you gotta get a player's undivided attention quick or they'll get bored and move on to something else.

The end of the world seems like a fairly interesting plot device to me. Are you telling me ou never asked any of these questions while playing?

"What happened in Trey's past, why is he like this?"
"Who is that mysterious hooded man who disappeared, even though there is nothing but a dead end in that direction?"
"Why is this sword lying here?"
"Where the hell did those monsters come from and why?"
"Did Luc really stop Satan?"
"Who is Desmund working for, and what does his employer want?"
"Who is Riley, who is Tiffany, who is Christine?"
"Where was Trey for a month? What was he doing?"
"Why is the world ending?"

If none of those questions interested you, I'm sorry, but there is nothing I can do for you. There really is not.


I answered all your questions and concerns.

Spoiler:

Don't use Suteki Da Ne in the "prologue" (what was that, really? Served NO purpose and bored me a lot). When you use well-known music from well-known series, you run the risk of people thinking of the original game and not your game. Hearing that made me want to close your game and play FFX instead.

This is why I am collecting musicians and composers...and you wanting to play FFX had nothing to do with anything...

Why was Trey (or Trea?? you changed the spelling?) the only with a portrait picture in the beginning? Either take it out, or give everyone a portrait similar. Also, that portrait clashed with his faceset.

The name change, if you payed attention, was story related. The reason I only used , was because I only had one. I did consider taking it out, but I preferred to leave it in.

Opening is very boring--why should I care about these random words and random names and random portraits of people? It doesn't make anyone want to play it and rather it makes me want to close the game and go play something else. In addition, I should be able to skip it if I so choose.

Provided you saved your game, you should only have to view it once. Sorry you didn't like it.

The numbers in battle are VERY hard to read and thus they get lost and I'm really at a loss when my HP is down. You should change the color and make it more noticeable because that's ALL that matters in the battle system--if you can't see your HP and MP, it just doesn't make sense.

That was a stylistic choice. I'll make the text more readable (I didn't have any problems) for you.

I also do not like the battle system--it moves WAY too slow. And I'm not a fan of random encounters--not even random encounters and visible encounters. Pick one or the other, not both. I suggest visible encounters.

I like the Battle System, thus why I choose it. Theres nothing I can do about you not liking it, or how I structured the encounters. For the Forest, I had to. It was the only way of making the Goblins a threat, and for Marcus's cave it was a personal choice.

Why does money always have to be in the lower right corner? It serves no purpose there and I can't even buy anything. In addition, why do hornets and "snakes" (those weren't snakes) carry dollars around? Bugs and reptiles wouldn't do that. You should make them drop no money.

Why does ANY monster in any game carry whatever they carry. This and the fact you don't like Random Encounters makes me believe you are not an RPG fan. It was simply a gameplay mechanic so that when you meet the Merchant, you have money to spend. Monsters don't drop money in Magix, which is the rest of the game.

Narration bores me and breaks the flow of the game. It's also a HUGE example of TELLING instead of SHOWING, and as a guy who writes novels, you should know that TELLING is the worst thing a writer can do when they can SHOW. Learn the difference.

I tried to keep the narration to a minimum, but you were playing through a PROLOGUE. Showing you everything would have been another game entirely. Once you reach Magix, which you didn't do it, the Narration lessens, but since it never stops, its part of the storytelling.

When you find the rifle, one of the kids *glares at Devon* -- are you kidding me? Games don't do that--if you have trouble figuring out how to make the kid glare at Devon, get rid of it or show through his speech that he's mad at Devon. You're a writer, aren't you?

In VX, it would just entail having him look at him. Minor difference.

Also, at first I thought no one could equip the gun, but as I leave the menu, the gun gets added to my inventory. You shouldn't have opened the menu until after you gave the players the gun. Really. It also doesn't change anyone's attack and if you don't equip it, you never learn things are weak against it. Give players an incentive to equip it.

That was an error on my part, but I didn't notice until I had everything uploaded, and it really wasn't worth the trouble to fix. I have it fixed currently though.

Maps are hard to see in. While your maps are what I expect from RM games, it's hard to tell where the exits are, which is a big no-no because then people get lost.

I really don't understand what you are talking about here. Most of the maps are pretty straightforward. This really needs a second opinion, because this sounds a personal problem. If you can't find the exits, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you could give me an example of a map that caused you trouble?

If God Hand is two handed, and presumably he's gonna be using it the entire game, why is he allowed to equip two-weapons? Which negates giving him more defense, unless it changes later?

There are various forms and upgrades to the Godhand, Staff, Twin Blades, Shortsword. Trey can also use just about any weapon in the game, the Godhand is just his trademark.

So... goblins are monsters, but huge hornets and "snakes" aren't monsters? Ok.

Would you have preferred no encounters for the first five minutes?

AND where I shut off the demo: when little teenagers get an M6--two M6s in fact! Wow! I can't suspense my belief enough to have that believable. I'm not going to play anymore because there was absolutely NOTHING that piqued my interest. Actual video games know they have to grab their audience fast or risk losing that audience to another game. You haven't grabbed me at all and there are a ton of other games I can play and be grabbed and not have to get annoyed at little teenagers having 3 guns.

It was an M16 and Ak-47 to be exact. There is alot of information about Alex and Deven you don't get in the Demo. Let me explain. Firstly, the two have grown up around guns their entire lives, and they are Military kids. This is why they can handle the Rifles. Secondly, would you have preferred if I gave them knives to survive the end of the world?

I would suggest to take a step back from your novel. Novels do not make good games. Good games do not make good novels. They are two separate mediums. In this, we can see you want to tell us a story, however that narration gets in the way so much. Instead of immersing us in the world, you are telling us how it is which is very bad narration--in novels and in video games. Yeah, sure, some telling in video games is okay because you need to know stuff, but when instead of showing us Trey (or Trea) falling in love with Claire, you spell it out--oh, she melted his frozen heart and flooded the world. Real cliche man. Instead, you could have SHOWN us this and had us squeeing over their love, but instead, you ruined that and didn't show us how it progressed before telling us that's what's going to happen.

Again, the entire subplot with Claire and Trey gaining her love isn't something that can explained in a short cut scene. Also, the flooding the world, it was a metaphor.

I'm sorry that the end of the World didn't pique your interest ("Hmm, I wonder why the fucking world is ending?"). That is suppose to be what draws you in. My intention was to introduce you to these characters, explain their relationship with each other, and have you asking questions that receive answers later.

That is another thing, you seem to upset that I didn't go to in depth, but at the same time, you are mad that I narrated too much. Godhand is a story about characters, more than anything. Once Trey reaches Magix, his character and story is fleshed out in flashbacks, and you learn about other characters. You didn't reach that far because two teenagers using guns is far too "unbelievable" for you. Another reason I don't elaborate much on Claire, is because she isn't in Twilight Kingdom that much. Infact, the entire idea is that exactly, Trey is away from Claire. This allows me to open up his character, since without Claire's influence and because of Trey's mental state, (which you didn't reach) he can be whatever he wants. This allow you some extra freedom in gameplay, that I take advantage of as the game goes on.

I appreciate your feedback, I really do, but alot of what you mentioned screamed two things to me 1)Its a personal problem, not an actual problem or 2) You don't like RPGs. I will go back and revise the story, because I can see things through your eyes, I will try to fix some storytelling issues and get you more involved, which of course, was always my goal.